Video MBA - Guy Bauer. Umault.

00;00;00;06 - 00;00;24;18
Guy Bauer
And that actually culminated in 2018. I lost $1,000,000 because I was just not managing the business and not managing my employees. And just everything kind of came to a head. So welcome to the video NBA, the podcast, where we dove.

00;00;24;18 - 00;00;51;27
Paul Bzeta
Deep into the dynamic world of video production and explore the art and business behind the lens. Throw it out. Hello and welcome to another podcast here on Video NBA, where we interview the market leaders in the world of video production. Today, a conversation with Guy Bower of U. Malt, a video production company known for creating B2B videos with a unique twist.

00;00;52;19 - 00;01;28;29
Paul Bzeta
The conversation delves into Guy's Journey philosophy on video production and his insights gained from his experiences. We talk about his origin story. How you started. Not in a high tech studio, but in the second bedroom of Guy's Chicago apartment in 2010. Guy opens up about significant mistakes, particularly in management, leading to $1,000,000 loss in 2018. But despite the financial setback, he views that year as pivotal for learning what not to do and discovering the importance of effective management.

00;01;29;20 - 00;01;54;22
Paul Bzeta
So much to learn here from Guy's honest and frankly inspiring story. So enjoy listening to his journey, his resilience, creativity, and the continuous pursuit of improvement in the dynamic field of video production. And so, without further ado, I bring you Guy Bauer. I'm here with Guy Bauer from UMO Guy. Thanks very much for joining us today.

00;01;55;17 - 00;01;57;15
Guy Bauer
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Paul.

00;01;58;03 - 00;01;59;22
Paul Bzeta
Where does the podcast find you today?

00;02;00;18 - 00;02;06;25
Guy Bauer
I am in a suburb of Chicago named Elmhurst at about a half hour due west of Chicago.

00;02;07;16 - 00;02;10;19
Paul Bzeta
Got it. And is that where you started your production company from?

00;02;11;29 - 00;02;23;00
Guy Bauer
No, I started it from the second bedroom of my apartment in Chicago. I was living in Chicago in 2010 and yeah, started it from there.

00;02;23;26 - 00;02;46;28
Paul Bzeta
Well, cool. Well, I've been looking forward to catching up with you guys. I'm a fan of your production company and your work is known for producing B2B videos that don't necessarily look or sound like B2B videos or corporate videos, you know? Why don't you tell us a little bit about your philosophy on that? And obviously that must be probably the key to mild selling feature, right?

00;02;48;03 - 00;03;09;20
Guy Bauer
Yeah, I think, you know, it's pretty darn simple. You know, like as marketers, we always try to over it or come up with clever copy that, you know, makes it sound cooler than it is. But honestly, making stuff people want to watch is a very hard thing. And I've been trying my entire life to do it. And sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.

00;03;09;20 - 00;03;25;13
Guy Bauer
It's very elusive. So really, that's our mission is make stuff that you would actually want to watch for real, like on your own. And that's a hard enough task. And that's our mission.

00;03;26;03 - 00;03;31;00
Paul Bzeta
Is it a hard task to sell and convince clients of that as well?

00;03;31;22 - 00;04;01;13
Guy Bauer
Yes, it's hard to convince with words. And so when I started to marvel, we would have pages on our website that were like, why videos sells videos by by 2025, 99% of Web traffic will be video like all those stats. Right? And like why your videos should be creative? Because people like creative things more like when you try to sell with words, it just always flopped.

00;04;01;13 - 00;04;25;22
Guy Bauer
I could never do it. I could never convince anyone with words. And basically, during COVID, there was nothing to do. So I just started making commercials for Umlaut and they started taking off and they started hitting. And then I made more and more and I was like, Oh, it taught me that. Like, it's almost like show don't tell.

00;04;25;22 - 00;04;48;09
Guy Bauer
It's what we as video people always tell our clients like show don't tell, make a video, show it, don't tell it. It's the same thing. Like it's it's the same thing. You know, clients are always nervous. They want to make sure you've done something before they do it. You always have to, you know. Do you ever notice that it's got to be in your portfolio or else they won't give you money to make it so?

00;04;48;09 - 00;05;22;20
Guy Bauer
Same thing. So I just instead of convincing with web copy and pages of why video, why creative matters, I just make creative stuff and then clients put it and synthesize their own insights and they sell themselves better than I could ever sell them. And they'll pick up on things that I had no idea are in the videos. But that's just, you know, it spoke to them on an emotional level, not a rational like, yes, we should invest in creative because creative sells honestly.

00;05;22;20 - 00;05;38;14
Guy Bauer
There's no proof that creative sells. I can't find it all I could tell I it all I can really prove is that if you make something people want to watch, people will watch it. And then, odds are, interact with that brand and then give that brand money.

00;05;38;25 - 00;05;52;08
Paul Bzeta
I want to sink my teeth into some of that here in a second. But before we do, why don't you talk a little bit, guy, about your origin story. Talk a little bit about how you found yourself in this crazy video production business.

00;05;52;26 - 00;06;15;16
Guy Bauer
So video has always been my hobby. Ever since the seventh grade, I had to make a book report on Rikki Tikki Tavi, and every other kid in my seventh grade class was making dioramas and stuff like that. And my my dad had this huge VHS camera and I was like, what if I made a video and I made a video in my backyard with my friends?

00;06;15;16 - 00;06;44;05
Guy Bauer
It was pretty terrible. It was shot all live in Cam. You know, there was no editing software or whatever. But my dad's camera did have this overdub feature where you could rewind the video and then it would turn on its microphone and then you could dub in your own audio track. So we took that two minute Rikki Tikki Tavi sketch we made, but then overdubbed it with James Bond on Her Majesty's Royal Service soundtrack.

00;06;44;28 - 00;07;07;14
Guy Bauer
And that was a movie magic when I played that for my seventh grade class. This is 1993. They were just like like I had I was Steven Spielberg to them. And I'll never forget the class was just like, What? It was a magic trick. It was like such a good feeling to give people entertainment. And that's been my itch the entire time.

00;07;07;14 - 00;07;33;07
Guy Bauer
So since the started, since the seventh grade, basically, since then, I've been making videos as a hobby. It wasn't my profession. I went into TV and radio. But then during the Great Recession in 2009, I lost my job. And then in 2010, I started with I read this magazine and said, Hey, you need to make money. Try using a hobby of yours.

00;07;33;12 - 00;08;06;00
Guy Bauer
And I'm one of those like freelance websites. So I think Elance or what was it called? It's not called Elance anymore. It's called Upwork. So I went online and I got an editing job for $50 to edit this guy's puppy video. And that was the start of my production company. And ever since 2010, I've proceeded to make every mistake, every business mistake, every creative mistake, every client service mistake, every leadership mistake I have made ever.

00;08;06;00 - 00;08;17;05
Guy Bauer
And I'm sure there's more mistakes to make, but I have made a ton of mistakes since 2010, and that's how you do it. That's the company just through failure.

00;08;17;05 - 00;08;31;07
Paul Bzeta
You learn a lot more from failure than you do success. There's no doubt about that. Were there any sort of key road bumps or potholes or maybe meteoric craters that you had to go through in order to come out of it?

00;08;32;07 - 00;09;10;12
Guy Bauer
Oh, totally. I mean, starting, you know, from 2010 to 2012, I was by myself in 2012. I remember being so overwhelmed, I started crying in the shower. So I decided to hire someone. And that was a major decision that would lead me on a trail of pain. Because just because I can make a video like I can make a video, I can make a video from start to finish, I will like I will go on any if there is a video show like they have cooking shows, I would go on one and be pretty confident that I could do it.

00;09;11;13 - 00;09;39;02
Guy Bauer
But just because I know how to make a video doesn't mean I know how to run a video business, and more importantly, doesn't mean I know how to manage employees. And 20 from 2012 through 2019, basically I proceeded to get my butt kicked. I got my butt kicked in management. Basically, I was the world's worst manager. I, you know, I read like a couple of management books and thought I was ready to go.

00;09;39;02 - 00;10;06;07
Guy Bauer
And it just, you know, it went very poorly for me as a manager. So that I would say was a huge one. And that actually culminated in 2018. I lost $1,000,000 because I was just not managing the business and not managing my employees. And just everything kind of came to a head and that was a pretty terrible year.

00;10;06;07 - 00;10;24;06
Guy Bauer
But also going back to the failure, 2018 actually marks a really important year in my life because it's when I determined what I wanted to do, like what not to do. Sometimes you have to learn what what not to do in order to see what to do. So I would say that was the biggest like, you know, losing $1,000,000.

00;10;24;06 - 00;10;31;09
Guy Bauer
I never even felt $1,000,000. I get out of it. It's crazy. But yeah, that was 20 million.

00;10;31;09 - 00;10;36;13
Paul Bzeta
Dollars in revenue. You mean in other words, that that just evaporated and you had to start over again?

00;10;36;19 - 00;11;07;07
Guy Bauer
Well, I mean, however, yeah, basically $1,000,000 in expenses. So we had money that we we spent money that we didn't have. And so basically since from 2019 through 2021, I was essentially cleaning up almost $1,000,000 worth of debt insanity. Yeah. So that taught me a big thing is like you may be really good at making videos or you may be really good at cinema typography or whatever the skill is in the video business.

00;11;08;01 - 00;11;37;14
Guy Bauer
But that doesn't mean you know how to run the business and more importantly, manage people. And so just I'm not trying to say don't do it, so don't do it, don't ever do it. I'm saying do it, but I really pay attention to it. And and you have to. And if you're not good at management, like I am not good at management, then you need someone on your team who is or else you're in for.

00;11;38;20 - 00;11;41;12
Guy Bauer
Yeah, you're in for Jared for disaster.

00;11;42;01 - 00;12;06;00
Paul Bzeta
Well, my God, that's heartbreaking. But at the same time, kind of inspiring because look where you are now. I mean, how do you come out of that? And don't forget, not a year and a half later, we go into COVID. And so using those sort of two large event is in anyone's business, much less in a in a creative business.

00;12;06;00 - 00;12;08;18
Paul Bzeta
I mean, how do you how do you come out of that still smiling?

00;12;09;00 - 00;12;36;23
Guy Bauer
Well, my mom always says, God looks out for balls and babies and I guess I consider myself a fool. So what's so funny is we went through our huge downturn in 2018. So by the time COVID came in 2020, I was already lean. So we were already okay. By the time COVID came, that's when everyone else went through the pain and had to lay off and trim and change their whole business model.

00;12;36;27 - 00;12;58;19
Guy Bauer
We had already are but was already kicked two years prior, so COVID really didn't. Curtis I would say this is a mindset you have to have if you want to succeed in this business. I would say in any business I think I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan, but I'm a I'm a huge Tom Brady fan. I love Tom Brady.

00;12;59;10 - 00;13;28;00
Guy Bauer
And someone was I was reading this article that most of a champion's life, they're not playing from a lead like 90% of Tom Brady games. He stressed he's not like, Wow, it's so great to be Tom Brady. That's only at the very end. That's like for 10 minutes after you win the Super Bowl, you get like joy or maybe more than 10 minutes like a couple of months, right of joy.

00;13;28;14 - 00;13;53;02
Guy Bauer
But most of the time when you are currently being a champion is actually you're stressed. Things are not going right. Every Tom Brady game, almost every Tom Brady game I've ever seen, they were always behind. They he always had a comeback. He had to believe in himself. He had to be positive but realistic. He had to manage his head more than anything.

00;13;53;13 - 00;14;23;04
Guy Bauer
And so also, you know, not to be all like Tony Robbins, inspirational, but I remember after the layoffs, I had a layoff, a ton of people in 2018. And I saw this poster at like T.G.I. Friday's, and it was a it's guy's name, Winston Churchill quote. And it said, Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts.

00;14;23;21 - 00;14;47;06
Guy Bauer
I'm butchering that quote, but it's the same thing like so when things go bad, it's not the end of the world. Unless, like, you're dying, then it is. But like when you're failing, it's not fatal, but also when you're succeeding, it's not final. It's it's it's just think of Tom Brady like you really never win the game. You're always in this perpetual struggle.

00;14;47;06 - 00;15;10;28
Guy Bauer
So it's like, keep your head right, be positive, be optimistic, be realistic. And I think if you can maintain your mental stability in balance, you can make it through darn near anything. And you know, what's so funny is I get emails like, Wow, Umo is so great and I have to what's so funny is I'm like, Yeah, but it's still a struggle.

00;15;11;06 - 00;15;31;19
Guy Bauer
Like there's no, I am not sitting in this like thing, this tower or whatever and life is amazing for me. I would say that it's the same as it's ever been. It's a struggle. There's always issues, there's always problems, there's always deadlines. There's always like, Oh my gosh, I don't know how I've got to do this. Always, perpetually, forever and ever and ever.

00;15;31;19 - 00;15;32;28
Guy Bauer
Even if you're Tom Brady.

00;15;34;02 - 00;15;46;14
Paul Bzeta
Hey, so describe Guy your day to day, then tell me what your average day looks like and what part of the business are your fingers still touching today?

00;15;47;10 - 00;16;14;28
Guy Bauer
So our business is only two people now. It's only me and my wife, and I touch every aspect of the business except accounting and bookkeeping. That's what. And producing I don't produce. That's up. My wife does. So she's our executive producer and I'm the creative director and director. So my day is is split among projects that are all in various phases.

00;16;14;28 - 00;16;41;10
Guy Bauer
So they could be in a, like in a sales phase where I'm trying to close a client. We could be writing scripts, doing storyboards. Right before here I was sending files to the, to my colorist and sound people to be finished. So just projects in all different phases of where they are. But I have my hands in all of it.

00;16;41;10 - 00;17;11;14
Guy Bauer
I there's this guy, Gary Vaynerchuk. His philosophy is clouds and dirt and I really like that philosophy. And clouds is like, you know, up there, you're the dreamer, you're the visionary. But dirt is like you're the practitioner. You know where the buttons are, you know, like how to upload something and then, like, transform it and do whatever. Like, I love being very theoretical and artistic and yeah, you know, and like thinking big.

00;17;11;22 - 00;17;34;16
Guy Bauer
But then I also love, I love directing, I love being on set, I love making props. Like if you've ever seen the Space Kids thing I did with my kids, all those sets are built by me in the garage. I find it thrilling. Like I love all aspects of this. So besides accounting and producing, I mean everything.

00;17;35;15 - 00;17;46;04
Paul Bzeta
Including sales. So are you doing are you doing the the sales calls? Are you doing the the closing, the pitching, all of that?

00;17;46;15 - 00;18;22;07
Guy Bauer
Yes, 100%. My philosophy has always been inbound. So we don't really do any outbound cold calls or cold emails or anything like that. We have at this point, we've built like a pretty good marketing machine that is comprised of ads, blogs, podcasts, trying to think of what else text ads on LinkedIn image ads. So we have a pretty good machine that that kind of spits up leads, inbound leads, you know, probably once every other day.

00;18;22;21 - 00;18;46;17
Guy Bauer
Most of them are unqualified. Most of them we won't close. But then, you know, the ones we close are we close and we don't pitch. So I read the book by Blair Ends The Win Without Pitching Manifesto. So all of our proposals are one page with three options, and we won't give ideas for free. And so the new business doesn't take up a lot of time because we're not spending wheels.

00;18;46;25 - 00;19;04;23
Guy Bauer
We only take clients who really want to work with us. And so what I found is the clients really want to work with you don't require a 20 page proposal. They just they just want to go. They just want to sign that statement and work and get going. So that's kind of the philosophy is I'm like a lazy salesperson.

00;19;04;28 - 00;19;26;01
Guy Bauer
I let the stuff, I let the the right clients will find us and then book us without really much debt making from us. If I was doing Dex, if I was doing pitching, then for sure I would be way overloaded and I could not do all the client work. I do.

00;19;26;21 - 00;19;45;18
Paul Bzeta
Right, right. So Guy, how are you ensuring that you are always given giving the client the best work or at least the best part of you when you're when you're stretched like you are as aa1 or two person band.

00;19;45;18 - 00;20;14;22
Guy Bauer
Keep the prices high. So the big mistake I made in 2012 was I wanted to make sure that quality stayed up right? So what I did was I hired, but I kept prices the same. So we did lots of volume. And what that did was, that's cool. If you can manage and I could not manage. So our quality went down due to no fault of my employees, due to poor processes and management by me.

00;20;14;22 - 00;20;36;08
Guy Bauer
So it's almost like I've had a mulligan. It's like a do over. I'm I'm exactly where I was in 2012 when I was crying in the shower. But now it's just me and my wife. And so the way to not get overloaded is instead of hiring people, I just reduce the number of clients by raising our rates. So the higher the rates go, the fewer the clients we book.

00;20;36;17 - 00;20;58;13
Guy Bauer
But the ones that do book now have more of or the same amount of my attention. So it's really capacity management. I am I never want to get myself overloaded because then quality will suffer. So the only way for me to maintain focus on all the clients is to reduce the number of clients by raising rates.

00;20;59;24 - 00;21;09;00
Paul Bzeta
And that obviously helps a great deal in terms of staying profitable then right where you're not worried so much about some of these small things.

00;21;10;17 - 00;21;37;00
Guy Bauer
Yeah. So I recommend anyone should follow Blair ends he has a book called Pricing Creativity and win without pitching manifesto and also David C Baker Yeah. So we make sure to charge enough to absorb when things go wrong. So if it were, if I'm overloaded, if I'm overloaded, we will bring in more freelancers, but we won't ever make the client pay for that.

00;21;37;10 - 00;22;04;20
Guy Bauer
That is already baked into the pricing. So yeah, pricing correctly and having a good cushion is important to it gives you lots of outs to make things right to kind of bob and weave because no week is the same in this business and it will never be the same things that you thought will go right, go wrong, things that, you know, it's it's just a it's a maddening, perpetual thing of problem solving, which I love.

00;22;04;26 - 00;22;29;14
Guy Bauer
But if you don't have money, it makes problem solving really hard. And the simple way we budget I stole from this blog called Think and what they do is they just take their hard costs and double it. So if I'm going to pay a thousand bucks and an editor, I'm just using around numbers, a thousand bucks, an editor a thousand bucks and a sound person, 8000 bucks.

00;22;29;14 - 00;22;55;20
Guy Bauer
My hard costs are $3,000. My fee to the client would be 6000. So 3000 goes out the door to those freelancers and 3000 stays in the agency from which I pay myself. I pay our soft costs like our premier subscription, our overhead, and, you know, all that stuff that comes out of that second half. That's the easiest way to price.

00;22;55;29 - 00;23;11;21
Paul Bzeta
Yeah. And keep it simple, right. We often hear from newcomers in the business about the challenges or the challenges that they're having in terms of coming up with solid pricing like that. And boy, that's one way of doing it. Just keep it simple like that, just double whatever it is.

00;23;13;00 - 00;23;39;29
Guy Bauer
And what that does is it gets you real disciplined. So so say your client says, hey, I have $10,000 as a budget, I have only 10,000. A lot of people. What I used to do and it would get me in trouble is I would spend $9,000 to do that. Well, if you do the 5050 rule, if a client says they only have 10,000, then you only spend 5000.

00;23;39;29 - 00;24;01;11
Guy Bauer
And what that's going to get it's going to get you really good at likes and like problem solving and triaging and thinking like an investor almost. So if you have to make a really good video but you only have 5000, you're going to have to sacrifice some things. Like it's not going to have an AC, you're probably not going to be able to rent an Alexa.

00;24;01;11 - 00;24;27;22
Guy Bauer
So what do you rent? And like what are the crew positions you use? Where do you invest money? Do you invest money in location and and kind of sacrifice on lights? There's so many ways. So there's one example I have is I did this mini doc shoot and it was a pretty low budget thing. And my way out of it was we shot.

00;24;27;22 - 00;24;58;10
Guy Bauer
It was just me and another crew member with one lens and we only had one lens and one light and that was it. But it's like when we went into the project with those limitations, then we made sure that all of our locations were outside. We made sure that we were using time of day. It's almost like the constraints powered a creative solve, whereas if we had all the money, we wouldn't have had that solved.

00;24;58;11 - 00;25;09;06
Guy Bauer
So, and I'm telling you, be real disciplined if you have if the client is paying you ten grand, do not spend more than 5000 and you'll figure it out. I promise you you will.

00;25;09;28 - 00;25;29;16
Paul Bzeta
A great, great bit of advice there. A lot of our listeners are either, you know, getting out of film school or perhaps they're newbies in the business. And we certainly will have those that have been in the business for some time and, you know, are always looking to grow and scale and come up, you know, to be inspired by leaders like you in the marketplace.

00;25;29;20 - 00;25;39;01
Paul Bzeta
What advice, you know, three or five key pieces of advice to you give to those looking to kick start their career in video production.

00;25;40;12 - 00;26;03;15
Guy Bauer
So, I mean, this is like very standard advice in filmmaking, which is just do it. The only way that you get good at this is by doing it a ton and stinking at it. Don't be. Don't worry about not hitting homeruns every time. It's not possible. Tom Brady didn't just start on the Patriots. He had to start somewhere.

00;26;03;15 - 00;26;27;14
Guy Bauer
He started on the bench. That's where he started. And even when he was a senior and he was amazing, they would still like not give him full games. So even champions like Tom Brady had to work and earn reps. So same with you. You are not going to be rich and famous right off out of the gate. It's not going to happen like you're not going to win some award right out of the gate.

00;26;27;14 - 00;26;47;24
Guy Bauer
So A, just do it. The other thing I would say is, is kind of know where you want to go and it's okay if you don't know where you want to go. If you just want to just do everything for now, that's fine. But as your production company and as you as a filmmaker age, you have to get out of the generalist.

00;26;47;24 - 00;27;09;24
Guy Bauer
You can't be doing weddings, TV commercials, music videos like that's cool. As a younger filmmaker, but as you get older, you have to start to find a niche. So I'm not saying like, don't start unless you have a niche. I'm saying go do everything. But as you do everything, take mental notes. What do you like? What do you not like?

00;27;10;07 - 00;27;33;06
Guy Bauer
Who are the clients when they call you really like taking those kind of jobs? That's how we found our positioning. Ten years ago. I was making any kind of video. There was I, we didn't do B2B. I didn't even know a B2B was so it was only after getting my butt kicked in 2018 that I was like, Oh, you know, maybe I should niche.

00;27;33;06 - 00;28;03;05
Guy Bauer
And that's kind of what I did. I looked around with the clients that like, who are the clients where I have a good impact who want to pay money. It's this like B2B niche that I'm in. So same thing for you. It's going to be something different. So do everything but be aware. And the other thing I would say, and this is like my biggest piece of advice is understand you as a filmmaker are different than any other filmmaker.

00;28;03;05 - 00;28;25;18
Guy Bauer
So when I was younger, I used to look at other people and then imitate them and because I didn't have confidence in myself, so I would kind of look at other videos and then use them as a template and then put my like a madlib and then put my clients message in that template and basically just copy others.

00;28;26;00 - 00;28;53;11
Guy Bauer
And it never worked because the best the copy can do is be, you know, less than it's a copy. So as I get older now, I'm starting to trust myself and just do what I think is good. I don't look for comps when I pitch an idea to a client. I don't look at five other ideas and then like basically copy and rip those off and show them to the client.

00;28;53;20 - 00;29;16;24
Guy Bauer
They come from me like the space kids thing is just I never saw that. I never saw anyone do that. That's just me and like all of you, malts ads. Those are just that's just what I think is funny. And if you were to do that, if you were to just have confidence in yourself and believe in yourself that you do have a voice, it's going to be unlike any other voices.

00;29;16;24 - 00;29;47;04
Guy Bauer
So it's going to be hard for you, too, because we always want to know, is this any good? Do don't worry about that. Don't worry about comparing yourself to others. Just do what you want to do, what you think is good. And then I promise you, over time, people will come to like your voice. And then because your voice doesn't change over time, like if you stay true to yourself, you will then get a quote unquote brand and people will go, Oh, that's like a that's a new more thing.

00;29;47;09 - 00;30;04;19
Guy Bauer
Like, but that's not true. It's not like I did some strategy. That's just me. This is what I like doing. And then so, you know, like who gets the credit and all that? Like, it's some strategic, smart thing now. It's just, it's what I think is good. And so that's all you have to do. It's very, very simple.

00;30;04;19 - 00;30;38;22
Guy Bauer
Don't be overwhelmed by all this like now stuff that's swirling around. Just make stuff, make a lot of things, start to think what you like and then have confidence stuff. And the other I would say number four is this is I do not want to hear anyone complain that their equipment is not professional because the creator was done in x three case closed and a story I rarely shoot on a Lexus, I rarely shoot on reds.

00;30;38;22 - 00;31;24;06
Guy Bauer
Everyone is always like, Oh well, obviously use Alexa's like, nope, I, we use Sony fx6x3 like I did, period. End of story. The gear is not what's important. It's not what's going to what's going to make you if if I had 5000, let's put it this way I don't even own a camera. But if you were to give me $5,000 and say, do something with this $5,000 to make your video production company get to the next level, I would go take a course on like story or writing or colorist coloring or I would pour it directly into my brain because the tools are just tools.

00;31;24;19 - 00;31;35;02
Guy Bauer
I promise you they will give you no leg up, but knowledge will give you the ultimate leg up. So invest in your brain, not in the gear.

00;31;35;21 - 00;31;42;29
Paul Bzeta
And very well said. I couldn't agree more that there's a saying that I really like it. It's it's not the horse, it's the jockey.

00;31;43;23 - 00;31;44;14
Guy Bauer
Right, right.

00;31;44;18 - 00;32;06;20
Paul Bzeta
It goes. It got serve as well. When we talk about gear and you know what you're one of the very few out there that is exactly like me. Been in video production for 17, 18 years. We still don't own a camera from the very same reasons, but really enjoy the conversation. Today we're going our listeners find you malt and find you online.

00;32;07;13 - 00;32;10;21
Guy Bauer
So what is a terrible name? Because it's impossible to spell.

00;32;10;22 - 00;32;27;22
Paul Bzeta
It's spelled that way. Guys, thank you very much for being on the podcast today. And I, I hope you and you both keep crushing it out there for.